Talking to Change: An MI Podcast
Talking To Change: A Motivational Interviewing Podcast, hosted by Glenn Hinds and Sebastian Kaplan, is a series of conversations exploring Motivational Interviewing (MI) and its influence on supporting individuals and groups as they make positive health and lifestyle changes. Guests from across the world discuss their special interest in the research, practice and learning of MI along with its place across health, social care, education and criminal justice.
About the Hosts
Glenn Hinds is a registered counselor living in Derry, N. Ireland. He worked as a drug therapist and senior social work practitioner in mental health and alcohol and drug services from 1990 until 2008, when he created Glenn Hinds Motivation & Coaching Consultants.He has been a member of the International Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT) since 2003.
Sebastian G. Kaplan, PhD, is an associate professor in the Departments of Psychiatry (Child and Adolescent Section) and Family and Community Medicine at the Wake Forest University School of Medicine in Winston-Salem, NC, USA. Sebastian has been a member of the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT) since 2008. He provides training and consultation in MI for a variety of regional and national audiences.
Episode 50: MI for Survivors of Violence, with Dr. Kate Watson
In this episode of Talking to Change, hosts Glenn and Sebastian talk to Dr. Kate Watson about the use of motivational interviewing when working with survivors of violence. Dr. Watson, founder of The Advocacy Academy and author of the book Only Trying to Help, described the role of an advocate and discussed self-advocacy as change talk, working with the “righting reflex” to amplify the voice of the client, difficult decisions for survivors of violence and how to counsel them with neutrality and hope, using affirmations, careful use of reflections, tying questions to hopeful outcomes, and more!
Episode 49: MI in Physio-Physical Therapy (for Chronic Pain), with Maddy Nicholson
In this episode of Talking to Change, Glenn and Sebastian talk to physiotherapist Maddy Nicholson about how motivational interviewing fits into the world of a physio. Maddy describes getting “underneath” the change talk, letting emotion into the room, using MI in a multidisciplinary approach for chronic pain, genuineness in affirmations, and more. The episode ends with a role play in which Maddy demonstrates how to use MI with a person who has back pain.
Episode 48: MI in Schools, with Andrew Williams, NPQH
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian talk to educator Andrew Williams, NPQH, about the use of motivational interviewing in school settings. Topics covered include developing a culture in schools that supports quality relationships, putting community over compliance, the implementation of culture change in schools and how it leads to improvements in behavior and learning, how restorative approaches blend with MI and a more inclusive school culture, why affirmations are more helpful than praise, and how teachers’ use of MI processes and skills facilitates good learning.
Episode 47: MI and Diabetes, with Judith Carpenter
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian talk to dietician Judith Carpenter about diabetes, responding to your “righting reflex” with “a kind heart,” effective directing, what’s been helpful for her when working with people who have diabetes (curiosity, evoking, and client feedback), ways to level power imbalances, psychological aspects of diabetes, and how MI can help when you’re worried about “opening the can of worms.”
Episode 46: Reducing Burnout and Compassion Fatigue with Kristin Dempsey, EdD, and Ali Hall, JD
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian talk to Kristin Dempsey and Ali Hall about compassion fatigue and burnout, including their recent focus on structural issues in organizations that have worsened due to COVID and climate crises, organizational responses to stress, why and how MI might be helpful for burnout, how MI can serve as a bridge to positive organizational outcomes, and other organizational strategies. In addition, Kristin leads a meditation for helping the helpers, and Ali discusses the concept of a “self-compassion” break.
Episode 45: “Effective Psychotherapists” with Bill Miller & Terri Moyers
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian talk to Drs. William R. Miller and Theresa B. Moyers, authors of “Effective Psychotherapists.” Bill and Terri describe their story of collaboration through research and writing, and talk about predicting therapy outcomes beyond techniques, empathy and genuineness, the internal experience and external skill, what not to do and how you can tell, learning the core characteristics through doing and feedback, belief in others, and how MI changed their lives.
Episode 44: MI and Social Support for Opiate and Stimulant Use Disorders, with Paul Delaney
In part two of a pair of episodes on MI for opiate and stimulant use disorders, Glenn and Sebastian talked to Paul Delaney, clinical supervisor, therapist, adult educationalist, and trainer in Dublin, Ireland. Paul talked about working with people who misuse opiates and stimulants, how to avoid the premature focus trap, ways to support autonomy with someone who uses heroin, harm reduction, and MI and restorative justice.
Episode 43: MI and Weight Management, with Claire Lane, PhD
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian talk to Dr. Claire Lane, a clinical psychologist at Swansea Bay University Health Board, UK. Dr. Lane talks about the complexities of working in a weight management service, how to establish safety and highlight strengths through engagement, the focusing process and blending MI with other therapies, and client-centered agenda setting. She also offers advice on how to respond to clients who say “just tell me what to do,” draw on people’s past efforts at weight loss, and raise concerns (with permission).
Episode 42: MI for People with Opioid Use and Stimulant Use Disorders, with Roy Stein, MD
In this episode (the first of two episodes about MI for opioid and stimulant use disorders), Glenn and Sebastian talk to Dr. Roy Stein, Clinical Professor of Psychiatry at University of North Carolina’s School of Medicine. Dr. Stein talks about ways to help people engaging in behavior that puts them at high risk for death, managing the “righting reflex” and reducing risk for burnout, the role of harm reduction for opioid use disorders, adaptations of MI for stimulant use disorders, medication treatment for substance use disorders, and more.
Episode 41: Ethical Considerations of MI, with Patrick Berthiaume
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian explore ethical considerations in MI with Patrick Berthiaume, a member of the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT). Topics explored include Patrick’s early MI story, the importance of empathy and the potential of others, Patrick’s “four conditions” of MI, considerations regarding neutrality, ethical dilemmas involving families with children at risk, and more.
Episode 40: MI for Youth with HIV, with Salome Nicole Cockern, PhD
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian talk to Salome Nicole Cockern, PhD, pediatric psychologist and Assistant Professor at Wayne State University, about the use of motivational interviewing with youth who have HIV. Topics discussed include intentionality when working with youth, conversations with youth to support healthy decisions, helping young people with HIV feel valued, use of affirmation, being mindful to be helpful, and how judgment doesn't help.
Episode 39: MI with People Who Are Homeless, with Danny Lang, MSW
In this episode, Danny Lang, a registered social worker and psychotherapist at the Canadian Mental Health Association in Ottawa, talks to Glenn and Sebastian about the use of motivational interviewing with people who are experiencing homelessness, including thinking of the MI Spirit as the "container" of the four processes, resisting the "righting reflex," client feedback as evidence of effectiveness, self-care, and helpful skills for helpful conversations.
Episode 38: MI for Vaccine Hesitancy, with Amanda Gabarda, EdD, MPH, NBC-HWC
In this episode, Amanda Gabarda talks to Glenn and Sebastian about applying the skills and techniques of MI to vaccine hesitancy, supporting autonomy around vaccine decision-making, “shoulders up” vs “shoulders down” conversations, what the research says about use of MI for vaccine hesitancy, and how to approach a helpful conversation on this issue.
Episode 37: MI in Puerto Rico, with Gabrielle Ruiz Tudó, MA
In episode 37, Glenn and Sebastian talk to Gabrielle Ruiz Tudó, a member of the Motivational Interviewing Network of Trainers (MINT) and program evaluator who has been involved in several efforts to make MI more accessible to Spanish speakers. She talks here about helping clients find their own tools and own their process, MI in Puerto Rico, important cultural elements of Puerto Rico, the adaptation of MI for use in Spanish, and learning the micro- and macro-skills of MI.
Episode 36: The Psycholinguistics of MI, with Paul Amrhein, PhD
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian talk with experimental psycholinguist Paul Amrhein, PhD, who worked with Bill Miller in the 90s on exploring the nature and role of client language evoked during MI as a predictor of substance use outcomes. He talks here about the original DARRN-C coding system; category, valence, and strength of change language; double-sided reflections and the reflection to question ratio; psycholinguistics beyond substance use conversations; change talk; and how experience affects learning MI.
Episode 35: Experiential Motivational Interviewing, with Matt McKenzie
In this episode, Matt McKenzie talks with Glenn and Sebastian about experiential practices as a precursor to MI, the “carpet tiles” exercise, the “life’s blueprint exercise” (MI spirit through art, metaphor, and core skills), healing as a creative act, resistance as a fear of knowing, meeting vulnerability with kindness, and his work on compassion fatigue in helpers.
Episode 34: MI from an Evolutionary Perspective with Abilio (Bill) de Almeida Neto, PhD
In this episode, Dr. Abilio (Bill) de Almeida Neto joins Glenn and Sebastian for a unique conversation about possible underlying evolutionary mechanisms of MI. Concepts covered include seeking a theory of MI to understand underlying mechanism, why telling people to change typically doesn’t work, social hierarchy in MI conversations, oppositional behavior as adaptive, the Rogerian influence on MI through an evolutionary lens, how MI helps deactivate unconscious mechanisms that hinder behavior change, and understanding the impact of all of this on clinicians.
Episode 33: MI in Dietetics, with Orla Adams
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian talk to Orla Adams, a dietician specializing in weight management, about the application of motivational interviewing in dietetics. Topics covered include early lessons from the MI spirit (empathy and acceptance), how to tell if MI is working, self-discover, skill development, application of MI to selective eating, and continued learning beyond the workshop.
Episode 32: MI in South Africa and Goodman Sibeko, MD, PhD
In this episode, Goodman Sibeko, MD, PhD, Head of Addiction Psychiatry at the University of Cape Town and Co-Director of the PEPFAR- and SAMHSA-funded South Africa HIV ATTC, joins Glenn and Sebastian to talk about use of MI in South Africa. Topics discussed include: cultural factors in South Africa and how this impacts health care communication, power dynamics in the doctor-patient relationship and the ambivalence that can arise from that imbalance, practitioners’ willingness to shift practice, and how to engage with others to counter toxic communication.
Episode 31: MI in Borderline Personality Disorder Interventions, with Florence Chanut, MD, FRCPC
In this episode, Dr. Florence Chanut, an assistant professor in the Department of Psychiatry and Addiction of Universite de Montreal, Quebec, joins the podcast to talk about Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), why people with BPD “are the best teachers of MI,” MI spirit when working with people with BPD, useful points of emphasis when using reflections, addressing stigma toward people with BPD, and compassion and self-compassion.
Episode 30: MI and Social Work with Melinda Hohman, PhD, MSW
In this episode, Dr. Hohman, Professor and Director Emeritus in the School of Social Work at San Diego State University, joins the podcast to talk about social work values and MI, working in child welfare settings, strategies for teaching MI, MI and burnout, MI and contact tracing, and her forthcoming book, MI in Social Work Practice (2nd edition).
Episode 29: MI in College and University Settings, with Peter Rives
In this episode, Peter Rives, Assistant Director of Wellbeing in the Office of Wellbeing at Wake Forest University, joins Glenn and Sebastian to talk about prevention efforts in college and university settings; using MI in college and university settings; how to build a culture of engagement, trust, and authenticity; MI learning communities on campus; and ways to strengthen the “affirmation muscle.”
Episode 28: Beyond MI: Helping Young People Change, with Michael Arterberry
Michael Arterberry, a self-described Master Encourager and Dynamic Motivational Speaker, joins the podcast to talk about breaking cycles, overcoming fear to create change, becoming the “driver” of your life, empathy across cultures, and his program for adolescents in schools.
Episode 27: Telehealth & MI, with Jordan Braciszewski, PhD
In this episode, Jordan Braciszewski, PhD, a research scientist at the Center for Health Policy and Health Services Research at Henry Ford Health System in Detroit, MI, joins Glenn and Sebastian to talk about MI and telehealth, beginning with a rationale for using telehealth, how to transition to telehealth (including how to overcome barriers), empirical support for telehealth, MI skills in telehealth, virtual schooling during the pandemic, and more.
Episode 26: Self-Determination Theory & MI, with Richard M. Ryan, PhD
In this episode, Dr. Richard M. Ryan, Professor at the Institute for Positive Psychology & Education at Australian Catholic University and Research Professor in Psychology at the University of Rochester in New York, provides insight into self-determination theory (SDT). He describes intrinsic motivation and the importance of autonomy, SDT and MI together, change talk through the lens of SDT, the SDT continuum of motivation, the risk of therapist ego involvement, SDT in the context of COVID-19, and more.
Episode 25: Physical Self-Care and MI, with Katie Brogan Hartlieb, PhD, RDN
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian talk to Dr. Katie Brogan Hartlieb of Wayne State University about physical self-care. Dr. Hartlieb talks about her own journey with MI, why MI can be useful in the context of physical self-care, and how to slow down and tune in, strike a balance between body, mind, and spirit, listen to your own cues, and care for yourselves and others. She also discusses ways to support self-care for kids.
Episode 24: MI for Suicide Prevention, with Emma Braconier
In this episode, Emma Braconier, a social worker based in Sweden who has volunteered for years at Sweden’s largest suicide support line (MIND), talks about finding hope from the Swedish suicide statistics, daring to listen, and MI skills relevant to suicide prevention, like eliciting “life talk,” affirming actions, double-sided reflections, and exploring values.
Episode 23: Public Health Interventions and MI, with Jane Groves
In this episode, Jane Groves, who has worked as a public health and health improvement specialist in the National Health Service in Scotland and England for over 30 years, addresses health disparities, MI as a way to empower individuals, meaning and purpose as vehicles for behavior change, and how MI can inform health care interventions, as well as presenting an example of a successful public health intervention (breastfeeding).
Episode 22: MI in Emergency Settings, with Ravi Maharajh, MA, EdS, LPC, ACS
In this episode, Ravi Maharajh, MA, EdS, LPC, ACS, Director of Marketing and Communications for a large community mental health system in New Jersey, joins Glenn and Sebastian to talk about the application of motivational interviewing in emergency settings, including its use in brief interventions, how to find your “authentic space” using MI skills, practitioner self-care, and change talk in emergency settings.
Episode 21: MI & Therapeutic Humor, with Mallori DeSalle, MA, LMHC, NCC, CMHC, MATS, CPS
In this episode, Mallori DeSalle, a licensed mental health counselor, nationally certified counselor, medication-assisted treatment specialist, and internationally certified prevention specialist, talks about the use of humor in clinical contexts, including letting laughter be okay, laughter as catharsis, responding to humor as a barrier with kindness and safety, humor in the context of training, and her “LAffirmations” project.
Episode 20: MI When Working with People with Psychosis, with Dr. Rory Allott
Dr. Rory Allott, a clinical psychologist working part-time in the National Health Services, joins Glenn and Sebastian to talk about the use of MI when working with people who have a diagnosis of psychosis. Dr. Allott provides an overview of his work with people with psychosis, and talks about approaches to working with this population that involve empathy, patience, offering choice, and the power of a “kind face.”.
Episode 19: The Role of Feedback in MI, with Denise Walker, PhD
Denise Walker, PhD, a licensed clinical psychologist, Research Associate Professor at the University of Washington, and Director of the Innovative Programs Research Group joins the podcast to talk about Motivational Enhancement Therapy (MET) and the role of feedback, as well as findings from the Teen Marijuana Check-Up program.
Episode 18: MI with People Who Have Sexually Abused, with David Prescott
David Prescott, Clinical Services Development Director for the Becket Family of Services, joins the podcast to talk about the use of motivational interviewing with people who have sexually abused, resisting the “righting reflex,” stretching the limits of compassion, moving “upstream” from behavior, understanding without collusion, and the SOAP approach (Stable, Occupied, Accountable, Plan).
Episode 17: MI for Multimorbidity, with Kylie McKenzie, MAPS, FCCLP
Kylie McKenzie, MAPS, FCCLP, a clinical psychologist from Melbourne, Australia, joins Glenn and Sebastian to talk about the challenge of having and treating multiple chronic conditions, the meaning of the term “patient-centered,” the continuum of MI skills in practice, and her research on improving depressive symptoms in people with multimorbidity as well as understanding MI from the clinician’s perspective.
Episode 16: MI in Leadership and Organizations (MILO), with Fredrik Eliasson
Fredrik Eliasson, a social worker with more than 20 years’ experience in management and organizations, joins the podcast to talk about MI as “a way of doing the work that I’m doing,” shifting workplace culture, psychological safety in the workplace, affirmations in strength-based leadership, and upcoming research on engagement in the workplace.
Episode 15: MI in Health Care, with Dr. Damara Gutnick
Dr. Damara Gutnick, MD joins the podcast to talk about MI in health care. Dr. Gutnick is the medical director of the Montefiore Hudson Valley Collaborative in New York; Associate Professor in the departments of departments of Epidemiology and Population Health, Family Medicine, & Psychiatry and Behavioral Health at the Albert Einstein School of Medicine; and Director of Quality and Research at the non-profit Centre for Collaboration, Motivation & Innovation. In this episode, she talks about preventing burnout, using a “sprinkling” of MI in 7-9 minutes, change talk and the stages of change model, self-compassion, and whole person health.
Episode 14: MI in Sports and Performance Settings, with Dr. Jeff Breckon
Dr. Jeff Breckon, Head of Research in the Academy of Sport and Physical Activity at Sheffield Hallam University, joins the podcast to talk about using MI to create a different culture in sport, challenges and opportunities for MI in elite sport, athlete mental health, and whole systems approaches.
Episode 13: MI with CBT and Health Behaviour Change with Adolescents, with Dr. Sylvie Naar
Dr. Sylvie Naar, Distinguished Endowed Professor in the College of Medicine’s department of Behavioural Sciences and Social Medicine at Florida State University, joins the podcast to talk about crossing cultural boundaries, her research career integrating MI in treatment of pediatric HIV, diabetes and obesity; implementation science in Florida, how CBT can inform MI practice, and training and implementation of MI in agencies.
Episode 12: The Engaging Process, Enhancing Autonomy Support, and Self-Esteem in MI, with Alan Zuckoff, PhD
Dr. Allan Zuckoff, Vice President for Clinical Program Development at Vital Decisions, talks with Glenn and Sebastian about the engaging process, markers of engagement, the pressure clients feel to change, the balance between autonomy support and directionality, engagement as a form of intimacy, and the role of self-esteem in MI.
Episode 11: Teaching and Learning MI, with David Rosengren, PhD
David Rosengren, PhD, President and CEO of the Prevention Research Institute in Kentucky, USA, joins the podcast to talk about his book, “Building Motivational Interviewing Skills: A Practitioner Workbook,” developing a personalized training style, mastery vs. fluency, the growth mindset, and positive psychology and grit.
Episode 10: Positive Affirmations in MI, with Tim Apodaca, PhD
In this episode, Tim Apodaca, PhD, licensed psychologist and associate professor of pediatrics at the University of Missouri-Kansas City, talks about the difference between affirmation and praise, genuine affirmations with case discussion, eliciting goals and values, research on the connection between affirmations and change talk, the importance of curiosity, and research on “envisioning the future” with clients.
Episode 9: MI and Positive Psychology, with Majella Greene
In this episode, Majella Green, a registered social worker with master’s degrees in applied positive psychology and social work policy and research, joins the podcast from London, UK to talk about positive psychology, challenges in research, examples in practice, the importance of nonverbal communication, and trauma-informed practice and practitioner burnout.
Episode 8: Trauma in Practice and MI, with Dee-Dee Stout
In this episode, Dee-Dee Stout, clinician, trainer, and author on the intersection between MI and trauma-informed practice, joins the podcast to talk about how not focusing on symptoms in favor of engagement with clients who have experienced trauma can make the work more effective and rewarding for the client and practitioner alike.
Episode 7: The Development, Future, and Practice of MI with Stephen Rollnick, PhD
In this episode, Steve Rollnick, the co-founder of Motivational Interviewing, describes the development and future direction of MI and explores his journey with Bill Miller in translating MI from a world of specialist psychology to one of everyday practice.
Episode 6: Change Talk (Client Language in Helping Conversations) with Theresa Moyers, PhD
In this episode, Theresa Moyers, PhD, associate professor of psychology at the University of New Mexico, Albuquerque, shares her ideas with Glenn and Sebastian on the importance of change talk within MI, based on her extensive experiences as a clinician and researcher on the treatment of addictive behaviors. Topics include what change talk is and why it matters, sustain talk, talking one's self into change, the cilnician as influencer, and client language within an empathic relationship.
Episode 5: Carl Rogers and Person-Centered Helping
In this episode of Talking to Change, Chris Wagner, PhD, associate professor, department vice-chair, and licensed clinical psychologist in the department of rehabilitation counseling at Virginia Commonwealth University in Richmond, Virginia shares his insights into the work of Carl Rogers and how his theories and method of client-centered counseling helped shape the practice of MI.
Episode 4: Motivational Interviewing & Compassion, with Stan Steindl, PhD
In this episode of Talking to Change, Glenn and Sebastian welcome Stan Steindl, PhD. Dr. Steindl discusses the bidirectional relationship between compassion and MI, specifically how compassion is a key element of the MI spirit and how MI style conversations can help guide someone towards a more compassionate view of themselves or others, which can also help bring about a host of benefits to one’s health.
Episode 3: The Four Processes
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian focus on the four processes of Motivational Interviewing (MI). The four processes are Engage, Focus, Evoke & Plan. Sebastian and Glenn also demonstrate an MI conversation centered on smoking.
Episode 2: The Core Skills
In this episode, Glenn and Sebastian focus on the core skills of Motivational Interviewing (MI), often presented as the acronym OARS. The core skills are Open-Ended Questions, Affirmations, Reflections, and Summaries.
Episode 1: The Spirit of Motivational Interviewing
In the first episode the podcast, Glenn and Sebastian introduce themselves and discuss their hopes for the podcast. They also provide an overview of the Motivational Interviewing (MI) Spirit, which consists of four guiding elements that all MI practitioners strive to uphold when engaging in MI conversations with clients: Partnership, Acceptance, Compassion, and Evocation.